When you have to spend $9 or $10 to make a reservation for a campsite that might cost less for one night than the latter, something ain't right. But then you say, one can order an item off the Internet and pay more for shipping than the actual cost of the item. This is life. But does it have to be so for camping in national forests. Can the Forest Service (FS) do anything to keep camping affordable for the "average Joe"? I think so



Suzi mentioned in an earlier post there seemed to be a guideline for ensuring each campground had a reasonable percentage of the sites as non-reserveable. Whether a real FS guideline/policy or not, we are finding more and more campgrounds where the campsites are 90% or 100% reserveable. This is not right!!! Among many other things, this is not affordable camping. The FS should mandate that campgrounds accepting reservations should keep a reasonable number of sites available for walk-ins/drive-ins, a.k.a. first come, first serve. This must apply to concessionaire-operated campgrounds as well.

Fortunately, for us tight-budgeted folks, there are still lots of FS campgrounds that do not accept reservations. In fact, they make up better than 50% of the FS inventory. And, some will never go on the reservation system because it's just not feasible. Recreation.gov (reservation system) is not the sole source for premium campgrounds. Although it would like to think so.

A good reservation system is essential. But don't let it preclude affordable, developed camping in our national forests . . . Fred

Please consider an area of discussion regarding the use of private companies managing NP services and what that means to us. Some are not accepting the Golden Age Pass for discounts. What does that mean? What can be done to stop this practice? Will it spread? How about a news alert to new issues at the parks?

We'll consider a separate category/forum after we have gotten through our "beta" test. In the meantime, I'd like to address your concern about the Senior Pass benefits or lack thereof.

The Senior Pass was established as part of Title VIII - Federal Lands Recreation Enhancement Act, enacted into law December 2004. See http://www.fs.fed.us/recreation/programs/feedemo/fee_legislation.html. We too encountered situations where our Senior Pass (Golden Age) was not honored. So, we did some research starting with the above Act.

Go to Section 8, Recreation Passes. We could not find any specific references to the Pass BENEFITS. We were looking for any references to the 50% discount, exclusions for concessionaire (private company) operated campgrounds, etc. Reading and interpreting legislation is a challenge for most of us, but we couldn't find any specifics. EXCEPT, look at Sec. 5(a)(7), Administrative Guidelines. Read the very long first sentence. We interpret, ". . . benefits provided . . ." to mean each Agency Secretary can determine the amount of the discount for the Pass and when it can be waived as a discount for campground and other eligible fees.

Assuming our theory is correct, the Forest Service and Park Service can determine the amount of discount and when the Pass can be waived. Thus, these rules are not directly legislated. So, if the contract negotiated between the government entity and a concessionaire permits the latter to charge the full campground fee even to a camper with a Senior Pass, well . . . Our theory is somewhat supported by the following links: http://store.usgs.gov/pass/senior.html and http://www.fs.fed.us/passespermits/faqs.shtml.

Since we believe the specific benefits are not legislated, the first line of communication is with the Agency. If that fails, then it's with one's congressional representative(s). Please, if any one has some thoughts on this subject, join in

. . . Fred

We have been fortunate enough not to have encountered this problem, but it did prompt me to look at the fine print on the back of my card. One sentence states " Concessionaires honor pass if it is included in the terms of their current permit". So Fred is absolutely correct...the first place to contact is the Agency issuing permits for that facility. (There is a list of
administering Federal Agencies on the back of your card).
It seems unlikely that you will get any immediate satisfaction by contacting the Forest Service, BLM, NPS etc. but remember that these contracts are reviewed and put out to bid every few years. That makes it important to make the complaint whenever you come across the problem, so that it is part of the file when contracts are renewed. It probably would not hurt to cc the concessionaire when you do write to the Fed. Agency involved.

[quote="Fred"]When you have to spend $9 or $10 to make a reservation for a campsite that might cost less for one night than the latter, something ain't right.

I agree whole-heattedly with this fee as an extreme "annoyance" ...

Few things 'p..s' me off more than to call for a reservation that costs anywhere from $10-15 bucks for a night (even if two nights) and have the phone-person tell me that I have to pay another $8 or so just to give my name and get a site. And. in some cases (don't remember specifically if this happens in UFS but did at state park -- where I cannot even get a reservation at the kiosk entrance, but in fact HAD TO call and make a reservation. The fee makes a short stay (one or two night) quite a bit more - percentage = 25-50% --- completely unreasonable ...

My problem with this "reservation fee" is that Recreation.gov does not charge the fee for reservations at COE campgrounds, so if the COE can waive the fee,(and obviously still make money) why can't the rest of them??

We totally agree with your annoyance over HAVING to make reservations (with a hefty reservation fee attached ) for national and even state campgrounds.

We agree that all public campgrounds should keep at least a certain percentage of their sites 1st come. Reserve the rest. Then everybody has a chance.

We recently stayed at LaPine state park (Oregon) . It was after Labor day and the campground was empty. But they still insisted that you had to make a reservation via phone or Internet (which we do not always have a signal for) or you could stay only one night.

You must reserve 2 days ahead of time. Pay a fee of $8 and if you make any changes ($8 fee) or cancellations ($8 fee) it can get expensive. We could not call or get online to reserve as it was a weekend and no one was in the office.

Annoying - so we stayed one night and left. What a shame. We wanted to stay longer and explore the area. That would have meant we would have poured some money into the local economy.

It could be a real win-win if the parks kept some sites as 1st come.

Couldn't agree more. We keep pushing the FS in DC, but problem is each NF is very autonomous and DC seems reluctant to issue nationwide policy. Of course, state parks are not in FS jurisdiction. I think concessionaires have a lot to do with FS local decisions, which are not always in the best interest of the public. Again, we keep pushing for a 40/60 split (40 = non-reserveable campsites). When you have the chance, please do the same.